Gaza demonstrates the pointlessness of
giving the Palestinians their own state.
Israel left Gaza in 2005.
All Jews were expelled.
At last the Palestinians could demonstrate clearly that they
deserved a state.
Did the Palestinians in Gaza seize the chance of building a free and prosperous state?
Did they encourage industry, trade and tourism,
and peace with their neighbours?
Did they set up a liberal parliamentary democracy,
with freedom of speech,
freedom of sexuality
and freedom of religion?
Until the Palestinians change their entire political and religious culture,
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will never end.
There is nothing Israel (or the West) can do.
All they can do is
wait for the Palestinians to change.
Giving them land, and a state,
simply escalates the conflict.
Like Hitler, the Hamas Deputy Minister of Religious Endowments, February 28, 2010, describes the Jews as sub-human bacteria.
"They want to present themselves to the world as if they have rights, but, in fact, they are foreign bacteria - a microbe unparalleled in the world. ...
May He annihilate this filthy people who have neither religion nor conscience. I condemn whoever believes in normalizing relations with them, whoever supports sitting down with them, and whoever believes that they are human beings. They are not human beings. They are not people."
I find it hard to put a positive spin on this.
Yes, maybe Gaza was untenable, and pull-out was inevitable.
But it looks like a victory for Islamism.
And, I believe, it has created
an Islamist terror state,
increasing the threat to Israel.
"The world wants a Palestinian state? Very well
- let them have it. And the result, as we are seeing, is something close
to panic ...
The Egyptians do not want a Hamas state on their borders.
They had expected Ariel Sharon to place a cordon between Egypt and Gaza. He has said he will not do so
- that he is leaving the job up to the Egyptians. ...
Is this Egyptian role on the border a precursor to a larger Egyptian role within Gaza? Egypt after all remains far more vulnerable to Islamic extremist ideology than Israel. The Egyptian authorities have crushed the extremist movement within their borders. Do they wish to see a jihadist state emerge on their borders? It seems unlikely.
Could it be that Sharon is calling the bluff of Western governments and the Arab states?
By creating the very Palestinian state that those governments and those states pretend to want but actually dread ..."
The truth is that
"The Palestinian leadership is incapable of creating a state that can live at peace with anyone ...
Somebody else must govern the restless and violent Arab-majority territories west of the Jordan River.
Israel has suffered four decades of condemnation for doing the job. Sharon is now resigning the task to anybody else
who would like to step in and take over the job. Nobody wants to.
But Egypt and Jordan may soon realize that they have no choice.
If there is a secret behind Sharon's plan - that is it."
Why Gaza? Why now?,
Mark Steyn, The Irish Times,
22 August 2005:
"This then is the audacious gamble of the Gaza withdrawal:
the best way to demonstrate that the Palestinians are undeserving of a state is to force one upon them.
It's a dangerous move, but in a tough neighborhood there aren't any other kinds."
I'm not sure I buy it.
I still think the Gaza pull-out will increase violence and terror.
Gaza pullout gained Israel more criticism, not less, 3 Jan 2008.
Doing what the Israel-hating world demanded led to more international criticism, not less.
"Hebrew University researchers found that Israel was represented in a more negative light in both the United States and Britain media after the 2005 Gaza withdrawal, compared to the period that preceded it".
Appeasement of tyranny tends to lead to more demands, not less:
"We also found that the demands from Israel for territorial concessions in the territories not only were not lessened following the disengagement, but actually became stronger."
"The sensational coverage and sensational charges raise the obvious question:
Why would Israel deliberately shell a peaceful family on a beach?"
No answer. The answer is:
If Israel did it, it was an error -
a stray shell in response to
a rocket attack. And so:
"the obvious question not being asked is this: Who is to blame if Palestinians are setting up rocket launchers
to attack Israel
- and placing them 400 yards from a beach crowded with Palestinian families?"
And in fact it looks like
the Palestinians killed the family, not Israel.
"there is an even larger question not asked.
... why are the Gazans launching any rockets at Israel in the first place
- about 1,000 in the past year?
To get Israel to remove its settlers, end the occupation
and let the Palestinians achieve dignity and independence?
But Israel did exactly that in Gaza last year.
It completely evacuated Gaza, dismantled all its military installations,
removed its soldiers, destroyed all Israeli settlements and expelled all 7,000 Israeli settlers.
Gaza became the first independent Palestinian territory ever.
And what have the Palestinians done with this independence,
this judenrein territory
under the Palestinians' control?
They have used their freedom to launch rockets at civilians in nearby Israeli towns."
Human Rights Watch, after initially blaming Israel,
are impressed by the IDF inquiry:
"told Klifi" [IDF]
".. that he was impressed with the IDF's
system of checks and balances concerning its artillery fire in the Gaza Strip
and unlike Hamas which specifically targeted civilians in its rocket attacks,
the Israelis, he said, invested a great amount of resources and efforts not to harm innocent civilians.
"We do not believe the Israelis were targeting civilians." Garlasco said.
"We just want to know if it was an Israeli shell that killed the Palestinians."
Lucy Mair" [HRW]
".. said Klifi's team had conducted a thorough and professional investigation
of the incident and made "a good assessment" when ruling out the possibility
that an errant IDF shell had killed the seven Palestinians on the Gaza beach."
I'm not sure this makes much difference.
The previous crowd supported terror too.
They funded it, carried it out, praised it,
and supported it in the schools and the media.
They taught the entire population to support terror
And they carried it out themselves.
through for example the
Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades,
are Islamist terrorists who attack civilians through suicide bombings,
no different to Hamas.
It was merely a fiction,
by Israelis desperate to have some partner for peace,
were any different
Many people have pointed out that if Hamas attacks Israel now,
now that they are the government,
it would be an "Act Of War" between two states, and Israel could respond as such.
But this is no different to the past. The PA, through the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and others,
repeatedly attacked Israel, and Israel chose to fight only a partial war.
Israel always had the option of waging all-out war on the PA.
It chose not to use it.
I'm not sure much has really changed.
The situation has just been clarified.
(*) Was this a real election?
Democracy works not because it is a majority vote
but rather because having regular free elections demands a free society -
free press, free speech,
freedom to question the government and religious authorities.
It's not clear at all that Palestine has any of these.
If you take a society with no habits of democracy or freedom,
and just give them a free vote, the result may be:
Regime change needs to start in the latter societies, where the people have already tried and hate
Islamism and pan-Arab dictatorship and communism,
and are disillusioned with non-democratic utopias.
All China or Iran need, for example, to be free is a single free election.
Palestine needs a new mindset in the population, and that will take decades.
What Democracy Is
- Majority-rule alone is not democracy.
Democracy means a free society.
Until the Palestinians change,
and reject Hamas and Fatah
and embrace liberal democracy and human rights,
there is no future for them.
If you believe that Hamas were "elected",
perhaps you would like to tell us where their parliamentary opposition is today?
Isn't another election due?
Who is the leader of the opposition party in Gaza?
Can you show me their last speech criticising the government in parliament?
As at 2014, there has been no election in Gaza since 2006.
Hamas carry on the war against Israel, 2007.
This is what the moron Palestinian voters voted for.
This is their decision, to do this.
Hamas missile alert, kindergarten, Sderot, 2007.
Every day the children have to run and hide from the incoming Hamas missiles.
The children have never known anything else.
See more Sderot videos:
The Palestinians loot their own infrastructure,
and attack their own fuel and electricity supplies.
Israel supplies fuel, water and electricity to Gaza:
Incredibly, even after pullout,
as rockets are fired at Israel
from a Gaza cleansed of Jews,
Israel continues to supply both the water and electricity in Gaza.
How tolerant, how civilized, Israel is.
What a contrast to its enemies.
As Robert Spencer says:
"By the way, during World War II, did Great Britain allow Germans to enter the country for medical treatment? Of course not. The very idea is absurd."
Yet Israel lets sick Palestinians in,
despite some of them trying to kill the doctors and nurses
once they are in.
How tolerant, how civilized, Israel is. What a contrast to its enemies.
Palestinian suicide strategy
by Barry Rubin, July 9, 2006
- The Western left fail to understand the irrationality of the Palestinians.
Some hard truths:
"There are hardly any moderate Palestinians in public life"
Palestinian strategy "rests on the belief that defeat is staved off as long as you keep fighting. Their only true victory is to continue the struggle.
This is why the "cycle of violence" concept is useless. Palestinians don't attack Israel because Israel attacks them, but because that is their sole program."
"Democracy, living standards, women's rights and so on have no value outside contributing to the battle against Israel."
"The movement's social policy is remarkably reactionary.
Fatah has no economic or social policy; Hamas seeks to turn Palestine into Iran or Afghanistan.
They have more in common with the world view of the Middle Ages
than with Chinese or Cuban visions of guerrilla war."
"Not only is infrastructure unimportant, it interferes with waging all-out struggle. If Palestinians become obsessed with job creation, educational or health systems or a successful economy this makes them satisfied with their lot and less willing to fight and die for the cause."
Gaza economy, never very strong, collapses after Hamas takes over. Report July 2007.
"The World Bank estimates that 75 percent of Gaza's factories have closed and more than 68,000 Palestinian workers have been laid off".
As the pre-madness Charles Johnson said, the moron Palestinian voters voted for this:
"The Palestinians in Gaza voted overwhelmingly for Hamas, and got exactly what they wanted
- a radical Islamic government that could not care less about their welfare."
Gush Katif Remembered: Was it Right to Turn Grass Into Sand?, Giulio Meotti, 18 Aug 2012:
"Before 1967, not even Beduin were living [in Gaza]. Then came the Six Day War and Jewish pioneers, who turned the area into an agricultural paradise."
In 2005, for the sake of "peace", the Jews were expelled and their settlements and businesses destroyed.
"Gush Katif [the Gaza settlements] disappeared with its
beautiful hothouses, orchards, flowers, red roofs, streets, factories, crops, schools and synagogues.
A daily average of 3,500 Palestinian laborers worked in Gush Katif prior to the evacuation. All of them lost their jobs. The area was turned into another Lebanon, with Arab butchering Arab and the "Gush" used as a base of operations for assaults on Israel."
Jewish children at greenhouses in Gaza
the week before the Israeli pull-out in 2005.
Within hours of the pull-out the greenhouses were looted,
destroying a major source of Gaza employment.
Image from here.
The greenhouses now looted and in ruins, 2006, and being used only for
weapons smuggling tunnels.
Image from IDF.
The greenhouses are a symbol of what Palestinian rule has done to Gaza.
As predicted, the Gaza pull-out
led to the setting up of a terrorist state,
with lawless Islamist gangs fighting each other for control
- instead of the setting up, say, of a parliamentary democracy with
respect for the law and human rights.
Gaza illustrates better than anything could
that the Palestinians do not deserve their own state.
It would be absurd
to expect the terrorist gangs of
Fatah and Hamas to compete peacefully for power
in a Palestinian state.
Terrorists will always war against each other - it is their nature.
the Sunni and Shia Islamist death squads in Iraq,
killing each other even though they have identical fascist beliefs.
Or the Soviets and Hitler.
Or Iran and Saddam.
Non-democracies will always war against other non-democracies.
And terrorists will always war against other terrorists.
It is their nature.
As terror gangs shoot each other in hospital, lynch each other in the street,
kill each other's families, and throw each other off rooftops,
Melanie Phillips on the savage killings, June 13, 2007:
"The fact is that what is happening in Gaza is the savage retort to all those who believe that a Palestinian state is the answer. When handed the reins of self-government, this is how the Palestinians behave. Hundreds of rockets fired upon Israel, and their own people thrown off the top of tall buildings and murdered in hospital."
As Gaza becomes a terrorist state,
with Hamas and Fatah shooting each other for control,
even killing each others' families
there are many ironies:
"The irony here is vicious. Fatah, which has long waged war against Israeli children, suddenly finds the killing of children abhorent. An old Palestinian game has been to throw stones at Israeli soldiers and whine that they are exempt from retaliation. Now they are discovering the joys of having that argument turned on themselves."
May 2007, of the suffering Palestinians
as the rival terrorist scum of Fatah and Hamas fight each other for control of Gaza
after Israel's withdrawal.
One man says:
"We pray that Israel will come back and rule us again."
This is your future, Palestine.
If you raise your people to hate and kill from birth,
you shouldn't be surprised if this
civil war and Taliban hell is your future.
OK I've been trying not to laugh at some of the incidents of this civil war
(those where the terrorists attack each other
with no innocents involved).
Sure it is blackly amusing
when Hamas attack Fatah terrorists,
execute them without trial,
and then Fatah complain about such savagery.
I nearly laughed watching Hamas blow up the Fatah police station.
- this is brilliant. It made me finally laugh out loud.
"They stole almost everything inside the house, including Arafat's Nobel Peace Prize medal. Hamas militiamen and gangsters blew up the main entrance to the house before storming it. They stole many of Arafat's documents and files, gifts he had received from world leaders and even his military outfits.""Eyewitnesses told The Jerusalem Post that dozens of Palestinians participated in the raid, which took place late Friday.
"Most of the looters were just ordinary citizens," they said. "They stole almost everything, including furniture, tiles, water pipes, closets and beds.""
Many other Fatah terror leaders' houses were also looted by the crazed mobs.
People in Gaza Long for the Return of the Israeli Occupation.
Some Israeli-Arab journalists say:
"People in Gaza are hoping that Israel will reenter the Gaza Strip, wipe out both Hamas and Fatah, and then withdraw again."
A Gaza poet says:
"If a there was a referendum in the Gaza Strip [on the question of] 'would you like the Israeli occupation to return?' half the population would vote 'yes'
If the occupation returns, at least there will be no civil war, and the occupier will have a moral and legal obligation to provide the occupied people with employment and food, which they now lack."
Be careful what you wish for.
They wanted Taliban hell.
Now they've got it.
"The men, who were brought late Saturday to the Soroka and Barzilai hospitals, accused Hamas of waging a "war of genocide" against Fatah supporters in the Gaza Strip."
Why doesn't Israel intern them until the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
Hamas kills the rival
Abdul-Latif Moussa, Aug 2009,
and burns his mosque. Result!
There is an incredible idea that we should support the
terrorist killers of Fatah
in this civil war against Hamas.
The US, EU, and even Israel have sent aid, money, and even arms to Fatah.
Have they forgotten
the long list of
terror attacks and suicide bombings by Fatah?
I am sure Fatah have killed more innocent Israelis than Hamas.
I fail to see how Fatah are any better than Hamas.
This is like supporting Saddam against Iran.
Cartoon from Cox and Forkum
See Cartoon Use Policy.
Welcome to Palestine, Jan. 29, 2007
- Caroline Glick on the hellhole of Gaza without Israel.
What did we expect?
The Palestinians to set up a parliamentary democracy?
"For the past 13 years, since the Palestinian Authority was established in 1994,
the contours of the State of Palestine have taken form in front of our eyes.
Palestine exists already.
Palestine is a terror state
and an economic basket case fully funded by the international community.
official Western aid to the Palestinians .. increased by 10 percent in 2006 over 2005, and stood at $1.2 billion.
The Palestinians, who receive more aid per capita than any people on earth, are needy not because they lack funds. They are poor because they prefer poverty, violence and war to prosperity, peace and moderation. So it is that 57 percent of Palestinians support terror attacks against Israel.
The multitude of protesters worldwide who demand an end to the so-called "occupation" and the establishment of Palestine should be made aware of the fact that Palestine already exists.
This is Palestine. Enter at your own risk."
After Israeli pullout,
Islamists stamp their boot on Gaza.
bomb Internet cafes, music shops, and even
Welcome to Taliban hell. You asked for it.
Hamas Destroys Christian School and Church in Gaza, June 2007
"masked gunmen torched and looted the Rosary Sisters School and the Latin Church.
"The masked gunmen used rocket-propelled grenades to storm the main entrances of the school and church," he said. "Then they destroyed almost everything inside, including the Cross, the Holy Book, computers and other equipment."
Musalam expressed outrage over the burning of copies of the Bible, noting that the gunmen destroyed all the Crosses inside the church and school."
Under Hamas rule of Gaza, public displays of crucifixes are forbidden. Report March 2012.
"Since the Hamas takeover of Gaza in 2007, half the Christian community has fled. Christmas decorations and public displays of crucifixes are forbidden. In a December 2010 broadcast, Hamas officials exhorted Muslims to slaughter their Christian neighbors."
Jihadists (probably Hamas) attack U.N. summer camp for children in Gaza, June 2010.
"about two dozen armed and masked men targeted a seaside camp in central Gaza, ...
The assailants tied up an unarmed guard, then tried to set fire to two tents and a perimeter fence made from tarp-like material. Wielding knives, they slashed a plastic swimming pool, blow-up slide and toys."
Aren't they the big brave men?
Gaza water park shut down by Hamas,
then burned down by Hamas, Sept 2010.
Hamas had issued warnings to it because of
"events where men and women sit together".
When presented with evidence of sharia in Gaza, left-wing Israel-haters often
resort to some sad argument like the above.
a female "Nontheist for human rights and social justice, naturalist, skeptic"
defends the oppression of women by religion.
As soon as you criticise Hamas for enforcing "modest dress" and banning bikinis,
will leap to its defence and say Muslim women should not have to wear bikinis!
They muddy the waters and pretend that people who merely want freedom want to enforce immodest dress.
It is creepy and dishonest
and certainly illiberal.
I summarise my view, 30 May 2014. I support freedom, not culture. That is why I am not a leftie.
Some fellow says it is not for us to say what kind of state Gazans should have.
that by the same argument, it is not for us to comment on Israeli affairs.
defends sharia by
it is wrong for us to "judge" their culture. I reply that she is judging the Israelis.
A small protest in Sept 2012
reveals that no protests are allowed:
"The police swiftly dispersed the crowd.
Anti-Hamas protests in Gaza .. are extremely rare.
"I call on people to take to the streets and not to fear being clubbed by policemen," Abdel-Fattah Al-Baghdadi, 23, told Reuters.
Hamas has banned protests, including any demonstrations calling for an end to divisions between it and Fatah."
Fatah had a large demo in Jan 2013
but only: (1) because they are backed by guns,
(2) because Fatah and Hamas have been killing each other and this is part of the ceasefire,
and: (3) because Fatah allowed a Hamas demo on the West Bank.
(Fatah also normally bans demos.)
"This was the first Fatah rally held in the Strip since Hamas violently took control of it in 2007".
John Kerry, Dec 2015, said
"Abbas had told him that the level of Palestinian despair about the future was unprecedented.
He "spoke more despairingly, my friends, than I have ever heard him, about the sense of hopelessness that the Palestinian people feel.""
Well boo hoo!
Not so desperate that you would allow an actual election,
where someone with better ideas for dealing with Israel
could have a go.
Oh no, we're not that desperate!
Abbas, Mar 2016, is quoted
"If Palestinian people and leaders ask me to quit, I will step down in a minute."
Hilarious. Dictators never hold elections. They vaguely declare "If the people decide ... (in my opinion)"
and Palestinian "elections" since the setting up of the Palestinian Authority.
The dictator for life Arafat died in 2004, requiring a new Palestinian "election".
Otherwise I guess 1996 would have been the only one.
Palestinian guy claims they have "elections"
700 members of the terrorist group the
PLO elect the
I sneer at him.
about political freedom in Gaza under Hamas.
He flounders for a while, but the name of an open Hamas critic in Gaza never emerges.
None of his pals can name one either.
He eventually blocks me.
With the success of Israel's
there have been calls for a similar
to protect the terrorists and their rockets from Israeli airstrikes.
The above shows the kind of
that would actually bring peace.
I love the shots of all the scumbag regimes at the UN!
Gaza beach under "Israeli tyranny" in 1988.
OK it wasn't normally like this, but: (a) there were bikinis, and: (b) Penthouse
felt relaxed enough in Gaza
to do this photoshoot.
The Penthouse Collection,
vol 4 no 4,
Gaza beach in 2007
by the "freedom fighters" of Hamas.
Hamas brings strict Islamic religious law
No more bikinis, or any immodest dress.
Synagogues Used as Bases To Fire on Israel, Aaron Klein, February 27, 2007,
illustrates better than anything that the Palestinians do not deserve a state,
and trying to give them one in Gaza and the West Bank is pointless:
"The ruins of two large synagogues in evacuated Jewish communities of the Gaza Strip
have been transformed into military bases used by Palestinian Arab groups
to fire rockets at Israeli cities
When Israel withdrew from the Gaza in August, 2005,
it left intact 20 synagogues of the Gush Katif Jewish communities
Immediately after the Israeli evacuation was completed,
Palestinian Arabs destroyed most of the Gaza synagogues.
a spokesman for the Popular Resistance Committees, Abu Abir,
said the area in which the synagogues once stood is now used to fire rockets at Israel.
"We are proud to turn these lands, especially these parts that were for long time the symbol of occupation and injustice,
like the synagogue, into a military base and source of fire against the Zionists and the Zionist entity," Mr. Abir said.
Mr. Abir blamed the Jewish state for the desecration of the Gaza synagogues
by Palestinian Arabs,
claiming the decision to leave the structures intact was part of an Israeli conspiracy.
Israel "left the synagogues behind so the world would see the Palestinians destroying them," Mr. Abir said."
Who I block:
I will debate almost anyone.
I love ideas.
I will not debate (and will block) people who do the following:
(a) Make threats.
(b) Accuse me of crimes.
(c) Comment on my appearance.
(d) Drag in stuff about me not related to the topic. (My professional career, my personal life.)
(e) Complain to my employer.
Yes, people do all these things.