One of the things that makes the Palestinian cause so worthless
the Palestinians are fighting to set up a tyranny.
Any Palestinian state would be a thuggish dictatorship with no human rights.
We see this already in the rule of the PA and Hamas.
A Palestinian state would be like Syria (Fatah) or Iran (Hamas).
Why on earth would any liberal Westerner want to see such a state set up?
A Palestinian state would not have human rights, because the Palestinians do not believe in such western concepts.
The Western left is projecting values onto them that they do not share.
If you don't believe me, because I am pro-Israel, how about believing the anti-Israel Human Rights Watch:
Palestine: Authorities Crush Dissent, Human Rights Watch report, October 23, 2018.
"The Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas authorities in Gaza
routinely arrest and torture peaceful critics and opponents
Human Rights Watch detailed more than two dozen cases of people detained for no clear reason beyond writing a critical article or Facebook post or belonging to the wrong student group or political movement.
Calls by Palestinian officials to safeguard Palestinian rights ring hollow as they crush dissent."
The majority of Palestinian Muslims support sharia.
The majority of those support the death penalty for apostasy.
Poll of 2012, released Apr 2013.
The Palestinians are the most anti-semitic people on earth.
ADL Global 100
survey of anti-semitism, 2014.
John Kerry, Dec 2015, said
"Abbas had told him that the level of Palestinian despair about the future was unprecedented.
He "spoke more despairingly, my friends, than I have ever heard him, about the sense of hopelessness that the Palestinian people feel.""
Well boo hoo!
Not so desperate that you would allow an actual election,
where someone with better ideas for dealing with Israel
could have a go.
Oh no, we're not that desperate!
Abbas, Mar 2016, is quoted
"If Palestinian people and leaders ask me to quit, I will step down in a minute."
Hilarious. Dictators never hold elections. They vaguely declare "If the people decide ... (in my opinion)"
and Palestinian "elections" since the setting up of the Palestinian Authority.
The dictator for life Arafat died in 2004, requiring a new Palestinian "election".
Otherwise I guess 1996 would have been the only one.
Fatah has Western apologists who claim they are "secular".
And yet the facts show that Fatah are Islamic persecutors of non-Muslims.
an atheist jailed and persecuted by the Palestinians.
West Bank Palestinian atheist
Walid Husayin was jailed and persecuted by the "secular" PA
for criticising Islam.
He described the God of Islam as having the attributes of a "primitive Bedouin".
He was charged with "insulting the divine essence",
as if that should be a crime.
Nice comment on Israeli news site:
"Israel should kidnap him,
and set him free in Israel or America."
Another Israeli says:
"He can move to Israel.
I also think religion is primitive nonsense. Move here, you can speak your mind and no one will care."
Update, Jan 2012: He is out of jail, but still being harrassed and beaten by the "secular" PA.
Update 2014: He now lives in exile in freedom in France.
Walid Husayin, 8 Dec 2014,
wonders why the left will not support his right to be an atheist.
I wonder that myself.
- The PA in the West Bank persecutes Christians.
The persecution of Christians in Gaza and the West Bank.
Report by Chris Mitchell, CBN News.
Describes how the PA (i.e. Fatah terrorist forces) tortured and executed a convert from Islam to Christianity,
in the West Bank in 2004.
He was a father of eight.
Welcome to Palestine, Jan. 29, 2007
- Caroline Glick on the hellhole of Gaza without Israel.
What did we expect?
The Palestinians to set up a parliamentary democracy?
"For the past 13 years, since the Palestinian Authority was established in 1994,
the contours of the State of Palestine have taken form in front of our eyes.
Palestine exists already.
Palestine is a terror state
and an economic basket case fully funded by the international community.
official Western aid to the Palestinians .. increased by 10 percent in 2006 over 2005, and stood at $1.2 billion.
The Palestinians, who receive more aid per capita than any people on earth, are needy not because they lack funds. They are poor because they prefer poverty, violence and war to prosperity, peace and moderation. So it is that 57 percent of Palestinians support terror attacks against Israel.
The multitude of protesters worldwide who demand an end to the so-called "occupation" and the establishment of Palestine should be made aware of the fact that Palestine already exists.
This is Palestine. Enter at your own risk."
After Israeli pullout in 2005,
Islamists stamp their boot on Gaza.
bomb Internet cafes, music shops, and even
Welcome to Taliban hell. You asked for it.
Hamas Destroys Christian School and Church in Gaza, June 2007
"masked gunmen torched and looted the Rosary Sisters School and the Latin Church.
"The masked gunmen used rocket-propelled grenades to storm the main entrances of the school and church," he said. "Then they destroyed almost everything inside, including the Cross, the Holy Book, computers and other equipment."
Musalam expressed outrage over the burning of copies of the Bible, noting that the gunmen destroyed all the Crosses inside the church and school."
Under Hamas rule of Gaza, public displays of crucifixes are forbidden. Report March 2012.
"Since the Hamas takeover of Gaza in 2007, half the Christian community has fled. Christmas decorations and public displays of crucifixes are forbidden. In a December 2010 broadcast, Hamas officials exhorted Muslims to slaughter their Christian neighbors."
Palestinians who flee Gaza because of Hamas speak, article, June 2017.
Yet again, foolish Westerners have to learn the lesson
that the only people who speak in a repressive regime
are people who agree with the regime.
The others have to be silent.
"The testimony of these Gazan refugees in Greece provides a rare opportunity to hear what Palestinians say when they’re out of reach of their own repressive governments and can speak freely. It thereby offers a glimpse at the true source of much Palestinian suffering – and a rebuke to all the journalists, diplomats, and NGOs who have collaborated with both Palestinian governments to hide this truth from the world."
Jihadists (probably Hamas) attack U.N. summer camp for children in Gaza, June 2010.
"about two dozen armed and masked men targeted a seaside camp in central Gaza, ...
The assailants tied up an unarmed guard, then tried to set fire to two tents and a perimeter fence made from tarp-like material. Wielding knives, they slashed a plastic swimming pool, blow-up slide and toys."
Aren't they the big brave men?
Gaza water park shut down by Hamas,
then burned down by Hamas, Sept 2010.
Hamas had issued warnings to it because of
"events where men and women sit together".
Western leftists are committed to supporting the repellent cause of the Palestinians.
They either ignore the nature of the Palestinian state,
or they even defend it as "their business".
When presented with evidence of sharia in Gaza, left-wing Israel-haters often
resort to some sad argument like the above.
a female "Nontheist for human rights and social justice, naturalist, skeptic"
defends the oppression of women by religion.
As soon as you criticise Hamas for enforcing "modest dress" and banning bikinis,
will leap to its defence and say Muslim women should not have to wear bikinis!
They muddy the waters and pretend that people who merely want freedom want to enforce immodest dress.
It is creepy and dishonest
and certainly illiberal.
I summarise my view, 30 May 2014. I support freedom, not culture. That is why I am not a leftie.
"Ron Portnoir" says it is not for us to say what kind of state Gazans should have.
that by the same argument, it is not for us to comment on Israeli affairs.
defends sharia by
it is wrong for us to "judge" their culture. I reply that she is judging the Israelis.
by Yossi Klein Halevi, The New Republic, August 20, 2002.
The Palestinians jail and torture homosexuals.
The western left doesn't care.
Just as they don't care what
does to gays.
A sad, sad article, Aug 2013.
A piece about the few pro-gay activists in Palestinian society
ends with the news that there will be a
"Palestinian Queer Party" event ... to be held in Israel!
The Palestinian gays have to hold their parties in
Says it all.
the Palestinian gay group,
has its offices in:
(1) Hasoreg St, in West Jerusalem (Israeli rule),
Haifa, in Israel.
No office at all under PA or Hamas rule.
they met in Ramallah in 2014.
Was it a secret meeting, or advertised in advance?
No one is named as a public speaker at the meeting, of course.
My standard challenge to lefty defenders of the Palestinians is:
"Show me any atheist or gay living openly under PA or Hamas rule".
Conor Leeson, Dec 2014,
unwisely takes up my challenge, and fails.
He ends up saying:
"Find it yourself, buddy."
Dara de Brun, Dec 2014,
unwisely takes up my challenge, and fails.
Asked to name any open atheist or gay in the PA, he says:
"You can ask many of my Palestinian friends who actually live there."
He is unable to name any.
"I offered you an option in which to find out the information, and you bottled it.
... Sadly, your laziness & fear prevent you doing real research."
"You can shut me up anytime with a single URL showing gays/atheists in PA. But you can't find any can you?"
Dara de Brun, Jan 2015,
continues to struggle with my question:
"Have you still not spoken to any of my Gazan friends? Have you no bottle at all Mark?
You need a URL for proof of apostates and homosexuals in Gaza?
Mark, you truly are a very very odd, and incredibly immature person
Like I said, I don't keep lists of people's lifestyles or sexual pref.
You prove to me that there isn't, hows that?"
And so on and on.
But no URL ever comes.
Later in the thread,
Dara de Brun claims a Palestinian state would allow people "live free".
There is no evidence that is true.
I ask Dara de Brun where are any gay public figures in Gaza?
Where is Gaza's David Norris?
Instead of giving me the name
of Gaza's David Norris, which would have shut me up,
he responds with this drivel.
Hot air and bluster and insult.
But the name of Gaza's David Norris
does not emerge.
"Irish in Gaza", Jan 2015,
unwisely attempts to answer my challenge to name any "out" gays in Gaza.
They claim to know many gays in Gaza.
That's possible, but hardly the point.
When asked for the name of a single "out" gay in Gaza,
they can only name friends who are in the closet.
None of their pals in that thread can name any either.
They all act as if they never thought about this issue before.
"Irish in Gaza", 31 Mar 2018, says the Israelis are the same people who "killed Jesus on Good Friday".
The idea that a "Palestinian state" will solve anything is ludicrous.
No one should want to see such a state created.
Why Don't I Care About the Palestinians?
by John Derbyshire, 9 May 2002, sums it up.
"We are all supposed to support the
notion of a Palestinian state. Why? We know perfectly well what it would be like."
We do know what it would be like.
It would be like Assad's Syria
or revolutionary Iran.
Why should we care if such a state is set up or not?
"But the truth of the matter is that there is nothing to broker when one party, the Palestinians and their Arab-Muslim financiers and supporters, remains committed to the destruction of the other party, the Israelis.
Another Arab state squeezed .. between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean -- its population hostile to the West and readily embracing every passing totalitarian ideology in its declared aim of harming Jews and destroying Israel -- instead of being a recipe for any final settlement, will be the source of unremitting conflict in the region and terrorism beyond.
Moreover, Palestinians killing each other while continuing to be supportive of terrorism -- in addition to the appalling record of Arab-Muslim regimes disregarding human rights and respect for minorities -- make them undeserving of the amount of attention provided by American administrations in contrast to the level of American support extended to the equal, if not more deserving, claims of the people suffering in Darfur, Burma, Tibet and Zimbabwe."
I agree. A Palestinian state would make the conflict worse, not better.
What is needed is not a Palestinian state
but rather for the Palestinians to reform.
Who I block:
I will debate almost anyone.
I love ideas.
I will not debate (and will block) people who:
(a) target my job,
(b) target my appearance, or:
(c) libel me (such as call me racist).
I will not debate such people.
I will block them.