In the Cold War, we knew that the Soviet Bloc dissidents believed in freedom.
We knew they would set up liberal democracies when they won.
This war is different.
are so few voices in the Islamic Middle East
calling for religious freedom (e.g. for apostates),
sexual freedom (e.g. for gays)
or a pro-freedom
foreign policy (e.g. pro-Israel).
The Islamic street may want to get rid of the dictator,
but it rarely seems to want freedom.
Mubarak was a vile dictator who denied human rights.
But, when he was gone, Egyptians voted to install an
Islamist tyranny instead.
This was then overthrown in favour of a new tyranny.
The problem is not just a dictator.
The problem is the Egyptian people.
After the failures of revolutions and hopes for change in
Iran, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan,
it's hard to have any optimism about the Arab or Islamic street.
Not enough of them want freedom.
They want other things.
Polls show that the Egyptian people themselves are the problem.
Poll, Apr 2011: Majority of Egyptians want Egypt's laws based on the Quran.
Poll, Spring 2011,
shows 62 percent of Egyptians support suicide bombing of civilians.
Poll, Apr 2011: Majority of Egyptians want to end the 1979 peace treaty with Israel.
Poll, May 2012.
60 percent of Egyptians want "strict" sharia law.
A further 32 percent want "moderate" sharia law.
On the role of religion in government, 61 percent chose Saudi Arabia as the preferred model.
There is no hope for these useless people and their useless revolution.
Poll, May 2012.
61 percent of Egyptians want to abandon the peace treaty with Israel.
Poll, Oct 2012.
74 percent of Egyptians want to break off diplomatic relations with Israel.
77 percent want to end the peace treaty with Israel.
61 percent support Iran's nuclear weapons.
87 percent want Egypt to have nuclear weapons.
The Egyptian people are the problem.
Poll of 2012, released Apr 2013.
2011 Egyptian revolution.
A mix of democrats and Islamists versus a dictatorship.
The violent and totalitarian Muslim Brotherhood
overwhelmed the democrats.
(Like what happened in Iran in 1979
and in Russia in 1917.)
Sandmonkey, 12 Feb 2011, on the fall of Mubarak:
"Tonight will be the first night where I go to bed and don't have to worry about state security hunting me down,
or about government goons sent to kidnap me; or about government sponsored hackers attacking my website.
Tonight, for the first time ever, I feel free .. and it is awesome!
Save any and all disagreements with any of the groups that operate them.
We will disagree with each other, and that will be sweet because no more dictatorship. Tomorrow we squabble, and .. tonite?
TONIGHT WE CELEBRATE!
FUCK OFF MUBARAK .. I HOPE YOU BURN IN HELL!"
Larry Derfner, 2 Feb 2011, says Israel and the West have got to take the chance and support this.
He says the protest in Egypt and across the Arab world is, for all its flaws:
"by far the greatest, most powerful demonstration for democracy in Arab history".
Ted Leddy, 4 Mar 2011, understands the fears about the
Arab revolutions of 2011,
but says a bad ending is not inevitable:
"From the US State Department to Mossad intelligence, and every plethora of human rights organisations and NGO's in between, nobody saw this coming. Even the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Al Qaeda and Iran have been slow to take advantage of the situation. And the reason for this is because what is happening today in the Middle east is a genuine unrehearsed grassroots uprising by normal people against authoritarianism.
Most on the right believe that any overthrow of a dictator will result in .. the reemergence of a new strong man or worse, an Islamist movement. This is very possible. Furthermore, many are arguing that democracy cannot take hold until there is an Islamic reformation. Again, its a fair point.
Having said all that, human history is not predictable. Nobody predicted this might happen so who is to say where it might end up.
... I personally will continue to cheer when tyranny falls. I do not have the burden of responsibility of being in the White House so I accept that I can afford to be romantic where as others cannot. But the opportunity to replace tyranny with democracy on such a large scale does not come around often. If the opportunity is wasted, we will regret it for generations."
1989 in Eastern Europe:
We knew these people wanted to be free.
A sad video of
2011-12 in Egypt.
Sad because optimistic.
People said it was 1989, but it was not 1989.
Despite the promises, it turns out
a different sort of oppression.
Pessimism - All the jihad lovers and Israel haters support the revolution
There was a cloud over the Egyptian Revolution right from the start,
as it became clear that all the jihad supporters and Israel haters thought the revolution
Irish Anti War Movement, 1 Feb 2011, says the protests are
"the first signs of hope in many decades for a better future for the entire population of the Middle East,
not least the oppressed Palestinians across the border."
That is, they predict and hope that a tidal wave of Islamist oppression and violence
The Islamic Defenders Front
in Indonesia explains the paradox.
To many Muslims,
"freedom of religion" means freedom to promote Islam and suppress other religions.
Vowing to exterminate the Ahmadiyah sect, he says:
"the government must know which one is freedom of religion and which one is desecration [of religion]."
Roland Shirk, 12 Feb 2011, is worried by Mubarak's fall:
"In nations with no history of constitutional protections, with religious majorities that are openly intolerant, minorities fare much worse than they do under "enlightened" despots or colonial regimes. ...
The track record of modern Jacobin democracy gives us no reason to treasure much hope for the Christians of Egypt.
I fear that the failure of Mubarak to arrange for an orderly, undemocratic succession that would keep the Muslim Brotherhood where it belongs - firmly beneath the iron heel of a secular state - will cost far more Arab lives in the long run than it would have cost to repress the riots. I hope that I am proved wrong.
... I don't need to be vindicated by history. I would much, much rather be wrong."
Victor Davis Hanson, February 26, 2011,
says it is hard to believe in the Arab street, but this is their chance to prove themselves.
We will find out soon if the people are any better than the dictators.
"That may be, or it may be that these awful governments - from Baathism to theocracy to seventh-century monarchy to lunatic Gaddafism to military dictatorship - were all pretty much reflective, in varying degrees depending on local histories, of the values and customs of the masses."
Egyptian protesters say they want to destroy Israel.
Mubarak would be better than the people in this video.
Hat tip The Jawa Report, which
notes depressing Egyptian opinion polls.
Many "Arab Spring" revolutionaries
seem at first to be secular western liberals.
But scratch the surface and you often find just a different type of jihad lover.
I have even been fooled by these kind of people myself.
Egyptian revolution activist
praised by human rights bodies around the world.
She is clear on this:
"Just a note: all my anti israel tweets were written in English precisely so that the international community celebrating our
revolution understands that we support the resistance of the palestinian nation against israel.
... i support a nation's right to resist occupation!"
Alaa Abd El-Fattah, 15 Nov 2012,
calls for jihad against Israel.
He also wants to bring down America.
to see more hatred of Israel from him.
I very much regret calling for the release of this guy from prison.
Endless jihadi filth in his timeline.
This is a search for
He celebrates the killing of Americans and Israelis. He denies being a liberal.
He is no better than the Muslim Brotherhood.
A similar example of a "secular" Arab turning out to be useless:
says he hates Israel and he
is a fan of Hezbollah:
"I have a pic. of Nasrallah on my Christmas tree."
I tell him
"You sound insane"
and he blocks me.
Lara Logan was covering the celebrations in Tahrir Square
as Mubarak stepped down in February 2011,
when she was attacked, beaten and sexually assaulted by the mob.
The crowd shouted "Jew, Jew!" and "Israeli!"
(she is not either).
"her clothes were ripped off, she was kicked and punched, her hair pulled out and she was sexually attacked.
She said she had escaped being raped because of the intervention of a group of women who threw themselves on top of her, protecting her from further harm."
""For an extended period of time, they raped me with their hands," Ms. Logan said ... She estimated that the attack involved 200 to 300 men.
[Her colleagues] estimated that they were separated from her for about 25 minutes.
"My clothes were torn to pieces," Ms. Logan said.
[She was] rescued by a group of civilians and Egyptian soldiers".
"Logan even called for retribution for the recent terrorist killings of Christopher Stevens, the U.S. ambassador to Libya
... The event is a harbinger of our vulnerability, she said. Logan hopes that America will "exact revenge and let the world know that the United States will not be attacked on its own soil. That its ambassadors will not be murdered, and that the United States will not stand by and do nothing about it.""
Can we have her as President instead of Obama?
Egyptian Muslims cut off Christian's ear, 20 Mar 2011.
"Mr. Mitri said that the Muslims tried to convert him to Islam, but he refused."
Because nothing says "Come join our wonderful religion"
like cutting your ear off!
Israel, July 2011, says the Egyptian revolution has allowed a massive re-arming of the terror state of Gaza.
"Hamas and Islamic Jihad have obtained more than 10,000 rockets and missiles
- including a large stockpile of Iranian Fajr-5 rockets that can reach Tel Aviv".
Mohamed ElBaradei, running for Egyptian President, says on 4 Apr 2011 that he would attack Israel:
"if Israel attacked Gaza we would declare war against the Zionist regime."
I think we can see where he is coming from now.
Mario Loyola, 5 Apr 2011, says ElBaradei will encourage war:
"such a declaration creates a huge incentive for Hamas to attack Israeli civilians where Egypt's policy had previously been to discourage such attacks. Strategically speaking, Egypt would be embracing Hamas as the tip of its spear, turned now against Israel. Best of all (from the point of view of a Hamas terrorist), Egypt would be giving Hamas the ability to trigger a state of war between Egypt and Israel."
Leader of left-wing party in Egypt
says that was the last election.
There will never be another one.
"They believe that if their candidate becomes president, Islam itself will have come to power
Therefore ... any opposition to him will be considered opposition to the Islamic enterprise, to the rule of Islam, and to the implementation of the shari'a.
If he takes the seat of power, he will never get up again. What advocate of political Islam has ever relinquished power?"
The new President of Egypt,
of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Alber Saber is arrested for "insulting Islam" by the new Islamic state of Egypt, Sept 2012.
He is attacked and beaten in jail.
Saber campaigned to topple Mubarak.
Now he must be wondering what was the point.
Shame on Anyone Who Ever Thought Mohammad Morsi Was a Moderate, by Eric Trager, November 26, 2012,
as the new Muslim Brotherhood tyranny of Egypt takes shape.
"Washington ought to have known by now that "democratic dialogue" is virtually impossible with the Muslim Brotherhood
... The reason is that it is not a "democratic party" at all. Rather, it is a cultish organization that was never likely to moderate once it had grasped power.
... the very process through which one becomes a Muslim Brother is designed to weed out moderates.
The Brotherhood, in other words, does not tolerate pluralism - it methodically works to extinguish it.
Nor does the Brotherhood tolerate dissent from outside the organization. It has often accused its critics - Christians in particular - of launching a "war on Islam.""
The darkness descends on Egypt:
The May 2012 launch of the Muslim Brotherhood candidate Muhammad Mursi's campaign for President.
The speaker declares that Mursi will liberate Gaza
(I thought Gaza was already "liberated" by the Islamist enemy)
and restore a united Arab state with
Jerusalem as its capital.
"Banish the sleep from the eyes of all Jews.
Come on, you lovers of martyrdom, you are all Hamas.
Forget about the whole world, forget about all the conferences.
Brandish your weapons ... Say your prayers ..."
3,000 Muslims attack Christians in village in Egypt, Jan 2012. Christian homes and shops were looted and burnt.
And what got the mob into such a frenzy?
A rumour that a Christian man had an intimate photo of a Muslim woman on his phone.
Let's burn Christian houses!
As Jihad Watch notes, Islamic anger and pride cause poverty:
"This mindset threatens a future of poverty and instability for Egypt, as no one is going to invest in a country where assets can be destroyed in a fit of rage at the drop of a hat.
There can be no prosperous society without stability, and no stability without a sense of priorities and self control on the individual, familial, and societal level."
14 year old Christian girl abducted in Egypt, Sept 2012.
She is raped and forcibly converted to Islam and forcibly married to a Muslim.
The police do nothing.
"The Salafist Front issued a statement on October 28, warning human rights organizations, especially the National Council for Women, not to attempt to return Sarah to her family, as she has converted to Islam and married a Muslim man."
4 Copts killed by Muslim mobs, Apr 2013. Christian shops and a day care centre are burnt.
Copts protest against the killings and another Copt is killed.
His family blames President Morsi:
"We thought that you are a president for all Egyptians,
but you proved that you are only president for your group".
Obama's disgusting statement, 3 July 2013:
"we are deeply concerned by the decision of the Egyptian Armed Forces
to remove President Morsi and suspend the Egyptian constitution.
I .. call on the Egyptian military ... to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsi and his supporters".
Siding with America's enemies.
Truly the worst President ever.
Killing Muslim Brotherhood types
doesn't suddenly make them not fascists.
Mark Steyn, 5 July 2013, warns against optimism:
"In the 2011 parliamentary elections, three-quarters of the vote went to either the Muslim Brotherhood or their principal rivals, the Even More Muslim Brotherhood. So, statistically speaking, a fair few of the “broad-based coalition” joining the Coptic Christians and urban secularists out on the streets are former Morsi guys.
Are they suddenly Swedish-style social democrats?
This week, the Brotherhood was checked — but not by anything recognizable as the forces of freedom.
Western ideas of real liberty have little purchase in Cairo."
Muslim Brotherhood, 2013, promises to "slaughter" all opposition. Irish leftist morons call the MB "democrats".
The western left is worried about the hurt done to the ultra-right-wing Islamists:
Robert Fisk, 14 Aug 2013, is bizarrely worried that fascists seeking sharia law will no longer trust democracy to implement their evil plans:
"What Muslim seeking a state based on his or her religion will ever trust the ballot box again?"
A better question
to ask would be:
"After election led to Muslim Brotherhood, what minority Copt would ever want democracy for Egypt?"
Egypt’s Military: Doing What Germany’s Should Have Done in 1933, Robert Reilly, 16 Aug 2013.
Yes this is like killing Hitler in 1933 or Lenin in 1917. There is some hope.
The military may have prevented a war with Israel.
"Thirty million people in the streets of Egypt, with the help of the Egyptian military, have saved the United States from the consequences of its disastrous policy of supporting the Muslim Brotherhood since President Barack Obama came to office."
Andrew C. McCarthy, 21 Aug 2013, warns that the big problem remains the Egyptian people
- the millions that supported the Muslim Brotherhood and have not gone away.
"Islamic supremacists do not win election landslides in Egypt because of the Brotherhood; the Brothers win elections because they are the best-organized Islamic supremacists in a substantially Islamic-supremacist country. Egypt is what it is not because of the Brotherhood but because of its sharia culture, ingrained after more than a millennium’s dominance by Islamic scholars and imams.
In free elections, Islamic supremacists would still win control of parliament. After all, they won by an almost four-to-one landslide only two years ago."
Morsi in prison,
The new Egyptian regime is not liberal or democratic.
But stopping the Muslim Brotherhood takeover
is still like
stopping Hitler in Jan 1933
stopping Lenin in Nov 1917.
Muslim Brotherhood reacted to being deposed
with an orgy of violence against Christians.
The MB and jihadists will carry on such persecution and violence against Christians forever.
It is what they do.
Egyptian human rights groups joint statement, Aug 2013, blames MB for attacks on Christians:
"In response to the storming of the sit-ins, members and supporters of the MB terrorized citizens in the capital and other provinces ...
They also attacked churches in Upper Egypt and Sinai, destroying and torching several of them, and threatened Christian citizens with further physical violence in several cities. Although the undersigned organizations previously cautioned the MB against such deplorable conduct and asked it to stop its incitement against Christians, the group disregarded these pleas and showed no concern for the lives of citizens".
The Muslim Brotherhood’s War on Coptic Christians,
Kirsten Powers, The Daily Beast, 22 Aug 2013.
"The Muslim Brotherhood is showing the world its true colors.
The group that “renounced violence” in an effort to gain political power is engaged in a full-scale campaign of terror against Egypt’s Christian minority. Brotherhood leaders have incited their followers to attack Christian homes, shops, schools and churches throughout the country."
Muslim Brotherhood supporters attack Christian church, killing 4, Mar 2014.
They drag a Christian woman from her car, strip her naked, and beat and stab her to death.
On hate preaching at Friday prayers, one Christian said:
"Let me tell you, here in Ain Shams, we [Christians] know that every Friday is a day of death; that the day after Friday, Saturday, we’ll be carried to the morgue!"
He converted from Islam to Christianity in 1998, and has been in trouble with the Egyptian authorities ever since.
Egypt arrests him
for "inciting strife" by talking about persecution of Christians, Dec 2013.
He faces 5 years in prison, June 2014,
for reporting on Islamic attacks on Christians.
His attorney says that:
"the real reason Boulous was charged and sentenced was because he abandoned Islam
and became a Christian".
What is the difference between Sisi and the MB again?
Egyptian Amr Nohan
sentenced to 3 years in Oct 2015
for putting this image of President Sisi with Mickey Mouse ears on Facebook.
Remind me the difference between Sisi and the Muslim Brotherhood again?
Egyptian singer Shyma was arrested for this video "Andy Zoroof" in Nov 2017.
She could face 3 years in prison for "inciting debauchery".
Remind me the difference between Sisi and the Muslim Brotherhood again?
Who I block:
I will debate almost anyone.
I love ideas.
I will not debate (and will block) people who:
(a) target my job,
(b) target my appearance, or:
(c) libel me (such as call me racist).
I will not debate such people.
I will block them.