OK let me give my background so you can dismiss me.
I am from a Catholic, nationalist, southern Irish background.
However, when I was young I renounced Catholicism
and indeed Christianity.
All my adult life I have been an atheist.
I married an English Protestant.
I admire science and the Western Enlightenment.
I love Ireland,
but I do not identify primarily with Ireland.
I identify primarily with the West.
I support all western democracies against their non-western enemies.
In particular I support the front-line western states (America, Britain and Israel).
I reject any anti-western
model of Ireland,
like the models of Eamon de Valera,
Michael D. Higgins
and Gerry Adams.
Should Southern Ireland be independent at all?
- It is such a cliché that Ireland was an abused colony,
and indeed most Irish people think of the past as "colonial",
that it is sometimes a shock to realise that Ireland was not meant to be regarded as a colony at all,
but as part of the nation.
The nineteenth century is full of well-meaning attempts to make Ireland look
as much a part of the national landscape as Scotland.
And, in an alternate history, it could have worked.
Even as late as 1900, the UK might still have been saved.
For Ireland really was (and still is) a fundamental part of English and UK history,
in a way that many Irish people deny.
Irish blood has flowed in the veins
of many people, from the English Royal family downwards,
who have shaped the past and present of the English state.
Every English monarch from Henry IV (whose reign started in 1399) to the present day
descends from Brian Boru, High King of Ireland.
All of the following -
William of Orange,
Charles James Fox,
Lord John Russell,
Lord Frederick Cavendish,
Sir Anthony Eden,
Sir Alec Douglas-Home,
Queen Elizabeth II,
- descend from Brian Boru, High King of Ireland.
are obviously Irish
in their ancestry.
Terence O'Neill descends
from the great Irish house of O'Neill, Kings of Ulster,
through a female line.
And English blood has always flowed in the veins of
Ireland's great families, including many of its great rebels.
All of the following -
Garret Mor Fitzgerald,
Garret Og Fitzgerald,
The rebel Earl of Desmond,
The rebel Earl of Tyrone,
Lord Edward Fitzgerald,
William Smith O'Brien
Charles Stewart Parnell
- descend from the British Royal Family.
early 20th century nationalists -
Mary Spring Rice
Sir Thomas Esmonde
- have had Royal Descents.
Gerry Adams, Bobby Sands and John Hume are obviously British
in their ancestry.
Of course, in Ireland,
all of our ancestors in every line
came from Britain, if you trace the lines back far enough
(except for the very small number that came direct from the Continent).
The UK could have worked,
but the whole population had to be brought on board
as first class citizens.
The Catholic majority of the Irish population
had spent the 19th century recovering
from their dispossession,
the theft of their land,
and the long systematic denial of Catholic rights to property,
education and professional membership
- and, when they finally reached the middle class in the late 19th century,
voted immediately for Home Rule and, eventually,
The 19th century failure to save the Union
To keep the Irish middle class
would have required radical change in the nature of the UK,
and that was never going to happen.
It is important to re-iterate that
although Britain invented democracy (along with France and America),
British rule in Ireland was not democratic.
The Irish never voted to join the Union,
and when they were, years later, finally allowed the vote,
they voted again and again to leave.
But they could not vote to leave -
they had to wait until parliament deigned to allow them to go.
Britain was a proto-democracy that slowly evolved into a real democracy.
The first truly democratic (large numbers of voters, all religions, secret ballot)
election in Ireland
was held in 1874,
the first chance that the natives
in 300 years
to say what kind of society they wanted.
It was a triumph for democracy after centuries of coercion.
And the will of the people was quite clear and understood.
It should have been a final, peaceful end to
the long sordid story of disenfranchisement.
But instead, needless to say,
the results of that election, and all subsequent elections
in the following 50 years,
were now ignored and overruled by London,
as if they had never taken place.
Having been finally granted the vote by their superiors,
the Irish people now found that the vote was useless.
Today, Northern Ireland is promised that if there is ever a majority vote
for a United Ireland, the UK will not stop them leaving.
Southern Ireland was never granted such a promise.
Indeed, quite the opposite.
There was, and they did.
Finally, only by the violence
could the democratic will of the people,
expressed in elections for decades, be finally implemented.
It is good that the will of the people finally got expressed,
but I still feel that it wasn't worth
all the violence and destruction.
It was a terrible shame that it came to that.
The Famine, 1845-50:
is the defining moment in the history of Anglo-Irish relations.
The fact that this could occur
in what was then
the richest country in the world
is, perhaps, all you have to say to justify Irish independence.
On the other hand,
it can be argued that the Famine was largely irrelevant history
by the end of the 19th century,
when Ireland was booming due to Britain's imperial boom.
By 1914, Ireland was a completely different country to what it was in 1850.
Ireland was the 7th richest country in the world in 1871.
Britain was 1st.
Ireland was the 11th richest country in the world in 1911.
Ireland went into an economic slump after
(i.e. caused by)
and fell far down the world ranking.
It never achieved this
(you might say its natural)
again until the Celtic Tiger of the 1990s.
Rising tide lifted only some boats
by David McWilliams, points out some facts:
In 1913 Ireland was as rich as Scandinavia.
In 1986 Ireland was only 1/2 as rich as Scandinavia.
Self-determination and democracy
are only means to an end.
What is important is:
(a) prosperity, and:
(b) a free society, with human rights and civil liberties.
By this standard, Ireland's independence
was a backward step,
(a) Ireland became poorer,
(b) Ireland became less free
as Catholic law was introduced.
The 20th century tragedy of independence
Ireland's independence was in many ways a mess.
It caused the Civil War,
destruction of the Public Record Office,
a sectarian Catholic state in the South,
and a sectarian Protestant state in the North.
But it was
made inevitable because
no serious attempt was made to reform the UK
to stop nationalists leaving.
In particular, it was
made inevitable because
extremists in London
consistently refused to allow the much more modest
idea of Home Rule
within the United Kingdom.
Just as 30 years of war in the North
because the extremists there refused to allow the much more modest
idea of Catholics sharing power within the UK.
Maybe it's time we stopped glorifying unelected, revolutionary violence.
Ireland is far, far greater than that.
The Wolfe Tones
the lack of a sense of proportion of many Irish republicans.
The lyrics are completely over the top:
"God's curse on you England, you cruel hearted monster;
Your deeds they would shame all the devils in hell".
The most evil deeds ever?
What did England do?
They executed a wounded rebel fighter,
a man who had just
killed 116 soldiers and 16 policemen.
Are Connolly's victims not human too?
Couldn't their families sing a song about James Connolly
as a "cruel hearted monster"?
Irish republicanism is a legitimate philosophy, but it badly needs a sense of proportion.
The Irish Times and the Irish Independent
execution of the 1916 leaders.
(Left) The Irish Times,
May 10, 1916,
after most of the leaders have been executed,
supports further executions.
(Right) The Irish Independent,
May 10, 1916, also
supports further executions.
James Connolly was executed on 12 May.
In our glorification of 1916 violence,
we have lost touch with the world view
those newspapers represented.
But reading their editorials is not a look into madness.
It is an alternative view, one that has been wiped out of Irish history.
of the 1918 election,
the Sinn Fein landslide,
are more complex than people think.
Nearly 30 percent
(29 percent) of the island of Ireland voted for continued Union.
Sinn Fein did not
win a majority of the votes.
It only won 47 percent.
Ireland has reformed
The Irish problem has always been, and is today,
basically a simple problem,
about the nature of
The problem lasts as long as the disenfranchisement lasts.
The question of nationality is only secondary
(as is shown by nationalist enthusiasm for the latest,
Having your own nation may or may not be a good way
of achieving a free and equal society.
You may trade the hostility, prejudice and thoughtlessness
of your foreign rulers
for a new set of home-grown,
tribal majoritarian oppressions,
as southern Ireland did for many years.
But southern Ireland is a much better place now.
It is a proper liberal democracy,
where everybody is a first-class citizen -
even atheists like me.
It has abandoned the insane ideas of protectionism
and embraced global capitalism,
becoming one of the richest countries in the world,
with strong ties to America and Europe.
It can even begin to think again of Britain as its "sister country"
without recoiling from the term.
The immediate future is one in which power-sharing will finally work,
in which Catholics will occupy many of the most powerful positions in the state,
and as a result will begin to identify, at least for the time being, with that state
for the first time.
It is important to realise that
Catholics in Northern Ireland have never had a share in the
governance of their own country.
Not just, not in the last 30 years.
In 400 years.
Majority-rule is not democracy,
and majority-rule must never be allowed to return to Northern Ireland.
Guy Fawkes Day
(celebrates the crushing of the Catholic rebellion for equal rights and civil liberties in 1605,
and the torture and execution of Fawkes).
(celebrates the destruction of Ireland's native paganism
and its replacement with an equally untrue, but much more violent, religion from the Middle East).
The Twelfth of July
(celebrates the end of Catholic and Irish civil liberties for the next hundred years).
See 1688-91 period.
It's typical of the ambiguous nature of the development of English democracy
actually ushered in the greatest
denial of civil liberties
that the Catholics and Irish have ever known.
Claims of the autocracy of Popes or of King James
when compared to what actually happened to the Catholics.
It's hard to know what the long-term future of the North is.
On the one hand, southern Ireland seems more emotionally attached to the North than Britain.
Britain emotionally abandoned Northern Ireland long ago,
regarding it more as a "white man's burden" than as part of their country to be defended.
The inability of the Ulster unionist to win the hearts and minds of Britain
is shown in opinion polls.
For decades, even during the Troubles,
polls have shown that
more Britons want
a united Ireland
NI in the UK.
The Republic of Ireland, in contrast, has made no such abandonment,
and continues to regard Northern nationalists as fellow countrymen.
So one might think the future of the North is with (a reformed) Ireland.
On the other hand, peace and power-sharing seem to have ended
the urgent desire of northern Catholics for a united Ireland.
There has been a major shift in polls during the Peace Process,
more NI Catholics want
NI in the UK
a united Ireland.
It may be that there would be an
to a united Ireland, since Dublin could not afford the subsidies that London can.
This would put off northern Catholics,
and also (even more) put off Southerners.
Southerners would also not vote for any arrangement that would start up the Troubles again.
If a united Ireland means a violent loyalist uprising,
Southerners will vote no.
Far better to keep the current arrangement.
So power-sharing may be here to stay.
Northerners seem to like power-sharing.
One now imagines that if
there ever is a majority vote for a united Ireland,
that power-sharing will still not end.
First, to provide security for unionists,
because nationalists, having tasted power and worked successfully with the unionists,
will not want to give up power to Dublin either.
Whether within Ireland or the UK,
power-sharing Home Rule for Ulster will continue forever.
For nationalists, this partitionist settlement
is about building a modern, liberal, neutral state
that everyone can belong to.
This is what every country in the world should be anyway.
The Peace Process has been painfully slow,
but so far the optimists have been right.
The republicans really are willing to compromise.
They have stopped the war, even if they haven't totally stopped violence against their own
The unionists really are willing to compromise.
They are willing to share power with Catholics,
even if they don't express enthusiasm about it
and rarely seem to have a positive vision for the future.
There's a long way to go, and it's time for republicans to end all
and join an agreed police force.
But isn't this better than the war?
The Peace Process has not led to any great desire for a united Ireland.
NILT opinion polls over time.
Graph from here.
Among Northern Catholics, more now want to stay in the UK
than want a united Ireland.
Technically, the majority of Catholics are now unionist.
The major change of recent years is that
the Peace Process has led to Catholics becoming much happier within the UK.
NI opinion polls, of Catholics only.
Graph from here.
British attitudes towards NI over time.
For a long time, a majority of Britons have wanted to be rid of NI and its Troubles,
irrespective of how NI unionists feel.
The major change of recent years is that
the Peace Process has made Britons happier to keep NI within the UK.
Graph from here.
The Republic has abandoned two major
principles of the revolutionary Irish (de Valera) state:
(a) a Catholic state, and:
(b) protectionist, self-sufficient,
It is now
Now is time to abandon a third principle:
It is time for the Republic to become
a formal ally of Britain (and the US).
In the Iraq War,
the brave decision
of the Fianna Fail / PD government
to keep Shannon Airport (and other Irish airfields and airspace)
open to the Allies,
even in the absence of a UN resolution,
was a welcome step in this direction.
In the future we should
go further and declare Ireland a formal ally
of Britain and America.
His pre-war speech
- "The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on
their souls and they are stoking the fires of hell for Saddam. He and his forces will be destroyed by this coalition for what they have done. As they die, they will know their
deeds have brought them to this place."
They did not fight in WW2, the Cold War,
or the liberation of
Iraq and Afghanistan.
They are peacekeepers, and a police force.
They have done much noble and heroic work
(e.g. defending the state against the IRA).
But the politicians
will not allow them actually
fight with our democratic allies.
UNIFIL in the Lebanon
is the only engagement of the Irish army that I think is actually
harmful and should stop.
Kevin Myers, January 15, 2009, nails Irish neutrality:
"Begging your pardon, ma'am, but I don't call an inability to defend a single beach, or guard a cubic meter of airspace, 'neutrality'. I call it military dependency."
Kevin Myers, 15 Feb 2013, welcomes the historic joint British-Irish mission against the Islamists in Mali:
"From Nigeria to Somalia, throughout the Arab world, and on either side of the Hindu Kush, armed Islamism is resurgent. Ireland is now taking its place in the line in the great war of values, which was formally declared on 9/11. NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen says he would welcome Irish membership of NATO. So would I.
An informal US base already exists in Shannon, and the US is our largest foreign investor. It's time to affirm that relationship with a binding treaty".
"It was natural for countries emerging from colonialism to a shaky independence to turn to their U.N. memberships as a source of pride, legitimacy, and often scarce revenue.
... However, the next generation rising up in the nations of the wider Anglosphere, like India, are beginning to take a less romanticized view of their fathers' commitments. Taking their independence for granted, they are able to contemplate closer ties to America and renewed cooperation with Britain on their own merits,
more free from the burden of past events."
"Often Anglosphere ties in these nations are the tolerant, outward-looking, freedom-oriented option, in contrast to more inward-looking nationalistic visions based on Continental European-style blood-and-soil ethnic nationalism."
In other words, the future for Ireland
is not Sinn Fein nationalism and UN third-worldism,
but rather Ireland as an independent, respected,
trustworthy ally of Britain and America.
The Presidential standard.
Maybe this should be the new Irish flag.
symbolises two tribal, sectarian traditions
and a pious declaration of "peace" between them.
It is a symbol of division if anything.
And the unionists have never been impressed by this declaration of "peace".
Maybe, as we redefine a secular, free market, pro-West, and possibly re-united, Ireland,
we should switch flag to something like the Presidential standard.
Another possibility would be
St Patrick's Cross
(which became part of the Union Jack).
Who I block:
I will debate almost anyone.
I love ideas.
I will not debate (and will block) people who do the following:
(a) Make threats.
(b) Accuse me of crimes.
(c) Comment on my appearance.
(d) Drag in stuff about me not related to the topic. (My professional career, my personal life.)
(e) Complain to my employer.
Yes, people do all these things.