The Catholic state of
Croatia in WW2
is perhaps the lowest point of the last few centuries
for the Catholic church.
It is probably the worst example of the church's collaboration with evil
in the modern era.
Shockingly, WW2-style killing erupted again in Europe in the 1990s.
The Serbs horrified the world with
the worst atrocities in Europe since WW2.
Yugoslavia's rapid descent from communism
into ethnic violence and barbarism
in the 1990s
reminds us that communism promotes intolerance, tribalism, oppression and violence as a solution to problems.
Communism is not the opposite of fascism.
Democracy is the opposite of fascism.
The grave of the Croat butcher
Croatia in WW2
was a Roman Catholic Nazi state, that killed
an estimated 700,000
Serbs and other minorities
with the enthusiastic support
of Roman Catholic priests, nuns, bishops, the hierarchy
and the Vatican,
some of whom (notably the Franciscans)
even participated in the killing.
These rather flawed sites may have unpleasant agendas
(anti-Catholic extremism, pro-Serb extremism)
but may still contain some useful information
about WW2 Catholic Croatia.
- Protestant fundamentalist sites
- Serb nationalist sites
all the attempts to "never forget" what
the Nazis did in WW2,
happen again in Europe, in the 1990s.
Despite their suffering in WW2, it was the Serbs this time who committed most of the democide.
Modern Serb fascism
led to the killing of perhaps 60,000
innocent civilian men, women and children
Concentration camps were even set up in Europe in the 1990s.
It is true that
Croats, Bosnian Muslims
and Kosovan Muslims also contributed to the democide.
But the majority of the democide in this period
was carried out by Serbs.
It is hard to remember, but the Serb Orthodox are meant to be
yet more Christians.
- The Croatian war, 1991-95.
- The Bosnian war, 1992-95.
- The Kosovo war, 1996-99.
The "Catholic" Croat state of WW2
organised concentration camps and genocide.
The "socialist" Serb state in the 1990s
carried out primitive ethnic cleansing and genocide.
is no innoculation against fascism.
Years of Tito didn't make former Yugoslavs refrain from neo-fascist genocide.
Quite the opposite.
And centuries of Christianity didn't make Croats and Serbs refrain from murdering the innocent.
The only innoculation against fascism that works is not socialism.
And it is not Christianity.
It is democracy.
- Criticism from counterjihadists:
- Because I am part of the counterjihad,
I get criticism from counterjihad people for condemning the Serbs
(and, some people think, implying support for the Muslims)
in the Yugoslav wars.
- But not everything fits into a "secular liberal democrat versus Islamic fascist" narrative.
Israel fits into that narrative.
But the Soviet Union doesn't.
And neither do the Yugoslav wars.
- Bottom line: I don't recognise the 1990s Serbs as fellow "westerners".
They do not stand for the values I stand for.
- Mill Town Atheist blog
Mill Town Atheist complains about my lack of links to Muslim crimes
in the Yugoslav wars.
He makes some good points.
I explain that:
(a) Serb crimes seem to be the main story of the wars,
if you consider absolute numbers killed,
(b) to say that is not to imply support
for the Croats or Muslims.
It's not an "either-or" choice.
I agree that
revulsion at Serb atrocities like Srebrenica
should not lead us to romanticise all their enemies
- such as the
But likewise, revulsion at the global jihad should
not lead us to support everyone
who fights it - such as the Serbs and the Russians.
- If you have an argument
that Serbs were not the major killers of the Yugoslav wars,
or that Muslims were not the main victims
(in terms of absolute numbers killed),
then tell me here.
- If you know of a major massacre (say over 20 killed) by
Muslims in the Yugoslav wars,
that I do not link to above,
tell me here.
Street scene in
(which is a majority Muslim
Photo 2008 from here
some Islamic jihadist fundamentalists fighting the Serbs in the Yugoslav wars,
but the wars do not neatly fit into a
"secular liberal democrat versus Islamic fascist"
First, the Serbs were not secular liberal democrats.
Second, there are a lot of liberal,
Muslims in this region.
Saudi-style Islam is alien to the natives of this region
just as it is alien to the natives of London and Paris.
The grave of the Serb butcher